Blog.DanYork.com - After 20+ years and 6 Subarus, why I won't be buying a new Subaru... (open standards and iPods)
Personal journal of Dan York - for my VoIP blog, see www.disruptivetelephony.com
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After 20+ years and 6 Subarus, why I won't be buying a new Subaru... (open standards and iPods)
I love Subarus. I've had 6 of them: a 1980 GL, 1984 DL, 1990 Loyale, 1993 Legacy, 1996 Outback and 2004 Forester. All of them wagons. I have literally put hundreds of thousands of miles on them. I drove one all the way around the United States hitting pretty much all four corners (and leaking oil most of the way, I recall). I've carried 12 or 13 kayaks on top (all at the same time) to move them across town. I've driven from San Diego all the way up to San Francisco with six people jammed inside (hey, it was college days!). I've climbed really muddy and rocky roads to mountain cabins. I've gone out in crazy blizzards when other car owners have been stuck at home. I've used and abused them in all sorts of ways. In so many ways, I'm a walking billboard for how great a car they can be... and I know I've sold others on how great a vehicle they are. I love 'em... and for over 20 years, the only car I have driven has been a Subaru.

But I won't be buying a 2005 Subaru. Nor, it seems, a 2006 Subaru. They've lost me. I won't be buying another one.

And it has everything to do with open standards... and iPods...


You see, when we moved back from Canada, the plan was to trade in the 96 Outback for a 2005 Outback and be done with it. We were then going to sell the 2004 Forester up in Canada (because it's a Canadian car and it's easier than importing it and converting it to a US car). We were thinking of either going with one car for a bit, and if necessary replacing the second car with perhaps a Subaru Outback Sport (what they used to call the Impreza, it seems).

However, when we went to look, I had a (to me) extremely simple requirement. I wanted to be able to either:
  1. Connect my iPod directly to the radio; or
  2. Swap out the radio for one of the zillion radios you can get now at Best Buy and similar stores that support iPod connections
My basic reason is that while my iTrip works okay, there's a fundamental problem that the FM spectrum is just way too jammed these days and so when you travel around, you keep running into areas where the interference is too great from stations on the same (or nearby) frequency that you are using. So you have to change frequency... and then change again when that signal gets trodden upon. If you're in the same general area a lot, it's usually okay. But if you are driving long distances, it's a pain. So I want a direct connection using either of the two above methods.

It turns out that you can't do either with a Subaru Outback or Legacy (the only models we're interested in).

Unlike some GM cars, there's no simple Line In jack that you can plug your iPod (or other MP3 player) into. In fact, it seems that none of the models have anything near support except for maybe the very high-cost L.L. Bean edition that has a radio that can play MP3s that you have burned to a CD.

Okay, I say... I've never really heard anyone praise a manufacturer radio for it's high audio quality... I'll just swap it out. Sorry, but no. It seems that some genius in Subaru's design made the decision that Subaru would drop support for the "open standard" of normal car radios and instead would build the electronics into the actual console unit. In other words, the radio is just a PC board fastened to the inside of the console... if you open it up, there's just air behind where the radio normally would be (or perhaps they put some other part of the car there). Now I can see the logic in someone's mind:
  1. It is cheaper to manufacture because we don't have to put in any annoying support shelf and connectors for the car radio. Just manufacture it as a simple solid unit. And...
  2. It locks buyers in to Subaru radios (and dealers). If you want an upgraded radio, you must buy from Subaru. No trips to Best Buy or Wal-Mart for you, boy... you must come back to us to get your new radio. And yep, we won't be charging you the Wal-Mart prices... you'll have to pay a pretty penny.

I think this latter point is what annoys me so much. It's not so much the iPod issue... it's the lack of choice and control. Connecting my iPod to my Subaru is just my concern today, but what about five years from now when the next hot gadget comes out? How quickly will Subaru innovate and support it in their manufactured car radios? (Their current status with lack of iPod support doesn't give me much hope!) Or if my radio should die, why should I be forced to only go back to a Subaru dealer?

It's funny... it's very much all the same open source arguments around operating systems. We (supporters of open source) have always used the "hood welded shut" analogy for comparing operating systems, saying "would you buy a car that was welded shut (or locked shut) that you couldn't just take to any mechanic? That you had to bring back to your dealer?" Instead we've suggested that you want the choice and control... that you might very well bring it back to the dealer... but you might also bring it to anyone else. Whoever can give you the best service/price/satisfaction/etc. You want the choice and control.

And yet here is Subaru taking away that very choice and control. And perhaps it seems like a minor thing... to get so worked up over being able to change the radio... and perhaps I am making too big of a deal of it. But perhaps not.

In all honesty, it greatly saddens me, because the reality is that as I said before for over 20 years, I have only ever driven Subarus. I had expected to continue to be driving them for many, many more years.

But now all our plans for vehicles have been thrown in disarray and now... after all this time... I'm actually visiting other dealerships... our current thinking is maybe a Toyota Matrix (or it's twin, the Pontiac Vibe) as they do now have an All-Wheel Drive model. (Other suggestions are welcome.)

Subaru is no longer the only game in town when it comes to AWD wagons... and so it looks like I will vote with my feet, wallet, and opinions...

I do hope, Subaru, that you will someday come to your senses and give us back that control. You've lost me... you'll probably lose others... it's too bad, because in so many ways you make a darn good car!

Tags: ,
Current Mood: disappointed

Comments
heisen From: [info]heisen Date: August 9th, 2005 03:21 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Choice is not optional

I don't think you're overreacting at all. That kind of nonsense pisses me off to no end. I just wish that everyone would demand something better.
From: (Anonymous) Date: August 9th, 2005 01:38 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Other solutions

First of all I want to say I agree. Plus, I don't think automakers never really grasp the concept of a good, well design entertainment center (aka stereo). Why do you think independent radio maker are doing so well. Which bring me to my next point.

Did you went to a good car stereo shop (not Best Buy)? Maybe they have a solution to your problem... I mean this is there bread and butter. If all automaker goes that route and they don't find a solution they will be in trouble.
dyork From: [info]dyork Date: August 9th, 2005 04:46 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: Other solutions

Good point. I actually didn't go to a good car stereo shop because the Subaru dealer was very definitive about how it was built into the car console. I also corresponded directly with Subaru customer service via e-mail and received confirmation from them that they knew of no current way to connect an external MP3 player to the stereo in the 2005 Subaru Outbacks. So after that, I didn't do much external research, although I did check in several online forums and found people grappling with the same issue. (However, they were already owners of the 2005 Subaru Outbacks and were now discovering that they had no way to connect an iPod or swap out the radio.)

Yes, if all automakers were to go this way, the good car stereo shops would be severely impacted.... but hopefully more car manufacturers will NOT be going that way.

For me, the problem is now solved. We did buy a Toyota Matrix today and: a) it does have a removable radio; and b) there are in fact several different options already available for connecting an iPod to the factory-installed radio. Goodbye, Subaru... hello, Toyota!
From: (Anonymous) Date: February 17th, 2006 08:23 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

iPod capability

I think your desire for an auto with the ability to play your iPod is valid. Too bad Subaru will be losing such a loyal customer. There are some very shortsighted car manufacturers out there. Although friends and family laughed, iPod capability was my main criteria when purchasing a new car two months ago (Scion xA). Now it's time for another car - and it'll be another Scion or perhaps Honda. It's fantastic to be able to control your iPod via the car stereo (or in the Scion's case, added control buttons on the steering wheel). Like Scion and Honda, I believe Audi, Volkswagen, and Acura also have optional iPod hook-up through the car stereo. My niece has some sort of cassette adapter for her iPod but it's such a hassle to drive AND change play lists, songs, etc. Good luck with your search!

Jelee0314@hotmail.com
dyork From: [info]dyork Date: February 24th, 2006 01:18 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: iPod capability

Wow, that ability to control the iPod from the buttons on your steering wheel sounds great! We hadn't looked at Scions because with the Vermont winters (although not this winter!) we want something with AWD as our primary car. Right now I do have to change the playlists, songs, etc. through the iPod, so it's not as ideal as your solution. Thanks for the info... perhaps when we look at another car for local commuting (something we're considering) we'll take a look at those. Thanks.
From: (Anonymous) Date: February 22nd, 2006 08:55 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)
i was planning on getting a 2005 Outback 2.5i, and was looking for ipod options. it is sad that you can't control via the dash.

one option is the harman kardon drive+play. it requires installation though, and either 3.5mm audio line or FM Transmiter :(
dyork From: [info]dyork Date: February 24th, 2006 01:48 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)
Hmm. The Harmon Kardon Drive+Play does look very interesting! BUT... do look carefully at the installation options. As you mention, the options are "line in", which you don't have with the Subaru radio (and probably won't get any time soon), or FM transmitter. The point of my original post back in August was that I am personally NOT happy with an FM transmitter, especially for trips, and that I wanted the option to install a radio that could give me a line in jack. This does, however, look like a cool way to manage your iPod while driving. Too bad the only way to connect it to the Subaru is through a FM transmitter. Thanks for the tip, though. It definitely looks like a nice option for iPod control.
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 20th, 2006 08:25 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)
The latest Subaru Tribeca does have line in for MP3 players from what I've read. The original did too, but it was part of the whole DVD/video option.
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 29th, 2006 02:05 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)
The Drive+Play doesn't use the same type of FM transmitter. It works off a hard-wired transmitter, which means that it plugs in to your stereo where the antenna connects to it, offering much better receptions than with an iTrip or other similar transmitter. Given the non-standard design of the new Subaru radio, I'm not sure if its antenna connects in the standard way or not, but the Drive+Play could offer an intermediate solution between a line-in connection and a standard transmitter. Either way, I'm glad that my 2000 outback's got a few years left in it, and I don't need to worry about this for now.

-Daniel
From: (Anonymous) Date: February 24th, 2006 02:50 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

2005-2006 subarus

as a subaru tech. in colorado, i believe that as all subarus are gr8 to own, i personaly own a 1990 loyal with 132,000 miles on it.
its an awesome car and a snow tank.

the 2005 and 2006 outbacks and legacys are a marked improvment of an already good vech. the ride is better, quieter and the turbo models are amazing. and the good thing is theres not been any major issues with them.
the tribeca ? well its butt ugly, however .. it is the best handling suv i have ever drivin. and it is the most comfortable road car by far.

so dont give up on subaru theres alot of good quality left in them.
dyork From: [info]dyork Date: February 24th, 2006 01:54 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: 2005-2006 subarus

Thanks for commenting. I absolutely agree with you that Subarus are awesome cars! The Outbacks and Legacys are sweet to drive and handle pretty much any kind of weather you can throw at them. Here in Vermont there are a whole load of Subarus because it's the perfect car to have for the weather and terrain. Like I said, I've owned 6 Subarus and they were the only car I owned for 20 years. We now have a Toyota Matrix and it's a great car, too, but it is louder than the Outback and can't hold quite as much cargo.

However, Toyota does not (yet, anyway) lock me in to not being able to upgrade my car radio if I should choose to do so.

Given how great the cars are, I think this move by Subaru was an insanely dumb one. I can only assume it was either ignorance (i.e. someone said "hey, we could shave a few bucks by putting the radio motherboard right into the console" and nobody thought through the ramifications) or arrogance (i.e "people love our cars and they will just keep on buying them no matter what we do") - or some combination of both.

What they missed is that, in my opinion, I am the type of evangelist they should want to keep. Over the 20 years I drove them, I showed people how awesome Subarus were and recommended them to whomever asked (and I know several people considered them after I raved about the cars). With some of the places I went with them and cargo I carried, people riding with me were quite impressed.

Now I tell people that Subarus are great cars but warn them that they are buying a car with a radio that they can't upgrade themselves (unless they are willing to pay Subaru some unspecified-but-probably-large amount of money to upgrade the radio whenever Subaru gets around to upgrading it). This has already turned off a number of people who, like me, own MP3 players and are looking for other options than FM transmitters. Others just haven't liked the "proprietary lock-in".

So wake up, Subaru! You make awesome cars but your arrogance and/or stupidity is costing you sales. End the lock-in and put a standard - and replaceable - car radio back in your cars... and then, and perhaps only then, do you have a shot at winning people back like me. (In the meantime, I'm really starting to enjoy the Toyota Matrix and that we're thinking that a Toyota Prius might now be our second car when/if we get one. We never really looked at anything but Subarus in the past, but now we are, and finding that there are other options...)
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 19th, 2006 08:29 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: 2005-2006 subarus

hey dan,

I found your post along with some other people out there looking for a way to hook up an iPod to the retarded subaru head unit. I think it will actually be relatively easy:

1. $200 Buy an HK controller gizmo: http://www.cardomain.com/item/HARDP1US
2. $50 Buy Jazzy's CD changer intercep board: http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18504
3. $0 Install it.
4. $0 Done. Pimp iPod control.

Less than the cost of most dealer installed iPod integrations.. and the iPod stays out of sight.

The _single_ pseudo-con to this setup: you need to run an 80MM blank CD in the changer while you're using the iPod, so the changer sends the "pay attention to me" signal to the controller. Lame, but when you consider that it's a 6 CD changer - not very lame (i.e. you don't ever have to take the CD out of the changer, you just give up one of your CD slots.. but you don't own any CDs because you have an iPod... right ? :)

Anyway, I just leased an 06 Subaru, and yes they have a retarded design. So f*it I'll just hack the car to do what I want.

I think this will be fairly pimp, actually :)

To compare an 06 Outback with (for example) a 96 is like comparing a beach cruiser to a titanium mountain bike. The car is tight, powerful, and super nice. They also finally got around to adding curtain airbags...

Enjoy the matrix.

_a
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 12th, 2006 11:06 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

suburu not living up to thier warranty

i have only owned one Suburu and am totally disappointed with Suburu. I owned the car for 6mos and they will not honor thier warranty and cover the engine. They are saying the oil was bad and therefore will not pay for the turbo charger and engine that need replaced.
dyork From: [info]dyork Date: June 12th, 2006 11:56 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: suburu not living up to thier warranty

Thank you for the comment, although, as you would note from my article, I have no connection whatsoever to Subaru. Sorry to hear you have had such a bad experience. I actually had excellent service with my Subarus and only really started having problems with one of them after it was over 150,000 miles of fairly hard driving (Boston highways, New Hampshire mountains). All around great car in my mind, outside of this wee little radio problem... :-)
From: (Anonymous) Date: August 2nd, 2006 10:57 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

06 Tribeca

I have 26k on my tribeca and for the last couple of months I have a rattle that sounds like a heat shield that is loose. It is intermetent around 65 to 80 mph. Dealer cannot find it. Anyone else with this problem?

Car has been great other than this.
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 27th, 2006 09:55 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: 06 Tribeca

I have a 2005 outback.. had a bad rattle... brought it in 1st time... 2 fuel lines behind the dash... wrapped in rubber.. fixed that rattle.. then noticed another... brought in 2nd time.. put felt between glass and dashboard.. quiet as a mouse now!!
dyork From: [info]dyork Date: November 27th, 2006 10:04 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: 06 Tribeca

Thanks for the comment... but please note that this is not a subaru discussion forum... it's just a blog entry about the lack of iPod support in the 2006 Subaru vehicles.
From: (Anonymous) Date: August 6th, 2006 05:17 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

The 2007 has what you want

I see the 2007 Subaru Outback has aux line in.
From: (Anonymous) Date: April 5th, 2007 01:01 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: The 2007 has what you want

Yep, this guy is right! The 2007 Legacies and Outbacks (along with the Impreza) all have iPod/Line-In/3.5mm jacks now. Subaru has heard your pleas!
dyork From: [info]dyork Date: April 5th, 2007 01:37 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: The 2007 has what you want

Subaru has heard your pleas!

Well, while I would love to think I may have helped in some small way, I think the reality is that there's a whole lot of folks like me out there who made our voices heard - and voted with our $$$ as well in some cases.

I'm pleased that Subaru has listened to customers at least about the iPod jack, which was part of my concern. Is the radio still built into the console though? i.e. are you still locked into only getting a radio from Subaru?

This is really a larger concern for me. Today I want an iPod jack... but next year I may want some other connector or service. I want to be able to replace the radio - should I want to - with some other radio that I buy elsewhere. That way if I can't get what I want from Subaru, I can find it from someone else. I'm (obviously) not a big fan of "vendor lock-in".

Anyway, thanks for the confirmation about the 2007 models.

From: (Anonymous) Date: September 21st, 2007 03:11 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: The 2007 has what you want

Does this "closed source" radio situation apply to the 06 Forester as well?
I just started looking into upgrading the radio because current programming is terrible. I want to get an XM or Sirius compatible head unit that plays MP#'s/WMA etc but this blog stopped me in my tracks.
If this holds true for the Forester, I will be trading that car in sooner rather than later. And not for another Subaru.
Great car but I agree with you. What happens when the next NEW technoilogy comes out.
Thanks
E-
From: (Anonymous) Date: November 18th, 2007 01:33 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: The 2007 has what you want

Just so you know, I have a 2006 Subaru Legacy and had no problem replacing the stereo with an Alpine. Got the stereo with a replacement dash panel (a little more work than past stereo swaps, but not hard at all) and it works fine! The 2 stereo installation stores I went to said they could do it, but the cost was a little higher than I wanted, so I got it from a well known car audio website. Looks like all the 2005-2006 Legacy stereo problems are fixed!
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 25th, 2008 09:25 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: The 2007 has what you want

Does your car have a climate control radio? I know if it manual it no problem to do this..
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 25th, 2008 09:27 am (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: The 2007 has what you want

What is the website or name of this car stereo place?

thanks
From: (Anonymous) Date: August 31st, 2008 10:49 pm (UTC) (Permanent Link)

Re: The 2007 has what you want

I read a post on another forum from someone with the same problem. His solution was to buy a stereo from a 2007 Outback from a junk yard and replace the stereo in his 2005 Outback - problem solved :)
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